Talk:List of manuscripts

Place names

Linda used English place names (except for Vatican City and Zurich), something we might want to change at some point? --Christof Rolker (talk) 15:32, 17 April 2022 (CEST)

+1 from me, there are also sometimes subtle differences between how libraries and manuscripts are named by Linda and how the official institutions prefer to be cited. I have begun to include city, library, and shelfmark at the head of the page to the best of my abilities --Clemens Radl (talk) 18:47, 22 April 2022 (CEST)

The Vienna mss are a case in point, I think they all lack a "Cod.". Also, we should be consistent in placing a comma both before and after the library name; but it is not worth the effort to change the URLs. Christof Rolker (talk) 17:45, 12 August 2022 (CEST)

All place names should be in local language now, with only a few accents missing for some French cities. Christof Rolker (talk) 17:44, 12 August 2022 (CEST)

Manual list vs. automatic list of MSS

The current list was created semi-automatically by turning the MSS register in Linda's book into a list, and adding the necessary code to turn every entry in this list into a link. So first there were the links, and later the respective pages were created after someone clicked the red link, entered a description of the MS in question, and hit "save changes". Later still, the list was added to manually as manuscripts not in Linda's index were added, often in one go with the creation of pages.

In the long run, however, it may be more useful to have a category rather than a list. All one needs is to add Category:Manuscript to all pages describing a manuscript. --Christof Rolker (talk) 16:51, 4 October 2022 (CEST)

For the protocol, Clemens fixed this; we do have the category now. Christof Rolker (talk) 20:27, 14 April 2023 (CEST)

In the long run we need to think about how to make sure that there are no entries in Category:Manuscript that aren't listed here. I wrote a quick script comparing the GoogleList from two days ago with this one and found 32 manuscripts that are only in the category (most of them are older than the GoogleList, the full list is on my user page). Right now I'm focusing on finishing the infoboxes, but this issue is connected to the other "keeping entries up to date"-problems. I'll update this as soon as I know if I'll get around to it. SStark (talk) 03:22, 17 November 2024 (CET)

Thanks for the reminder. Mutually updating the Google list and the Clavis Wiki remains a real problem, esp if we are serious about the hundreds of Gratian and Liber Extra manuscripts. atb Christof Rolker (talk) 21:44, 18 November 2024 (CET)

Vienna MSS

The Vienna MSS really should all have "Cod." as part of the shelf mark, shouldn't they? --Christof Rolker (talk) 16:53, 4 October 2022 (CEST)

The "Cod." is indeed part of the shelf mark; I've moved all pages and changed all references accordingly (using the "replace text" function). Christof Rolker (talk) 09:36, 6 October 2022 (CEST)

Library names with comma

Right now there are

• "Cambridge, Mass., Harvard Law School Library"
• "Columbia, University of Missouri, Ellis Library, Special Collections"
• "Klagenfurt, Archiv der Diözese Gurk, Bischöfliche Bibliothek"
• "New Haven, Yale University, Law Library"
• "New Haven, Yale University, Beinecke Library"
• "Venezia, Archivio di Stato, Secreta".

Those cause problems when automatically trying to download the list because the second comma is normally understood to show the beginning of the shelfmark. I now could define exceptions for those, but I'd prefer for there simply being no commas in the library names (at least in what we have defined as the "Abbreviated as", I don't care about the full ones). I'd suggest either using ";", ":" or an empty space, or alternatively completely re-defining the abbreviations for them. SStark (talk) 13:27, 19 November 2024 (CET)

Das sind drei unterschiedliche Fälle: Ortsname, Teilbibliotheken und Fonds/Sammlungen innerhalb einer Bibliothek. Die Literatur ist da nicht konsequent, Angaben zu Fonds werden oft ununterscheidbar zu Signaturbestandteilen zitiert, zB "Paris, BnF, lat. 1234" für die Hs. mit der Signatur 1234 im Fonds Latina.- Pragmatisch schlage ich vor:

-

Ich schlage vor:

• Cambridge (Mass.), Harvard Law School Library

Das Christof Rolker (talk) 14:42, 20 November 2024 (CET)

• Columbia, University of Missouri Ellis Library Special Collections"
• Klagenfurt, Archiv der Diözese Gurk - Bischöfliche Bibliothek
• New Haven, Yale University Law Library

"New Haven, Yale University Beinecke Library

"Venezia, Archivio di Stato - Secreta Christof Rolker (talk) 14:44, 20 November 2024 (CET)

Die vier mit Leerzeichen sind ok, aber bitte keine regulären Bindestriche, die sind noch problematischer als die zusätzlichen Kommata, da sie das Trennzeichen zwischen Signatur und adInfo sind. Sowas wie Geviertstriche ginge an sich, aber da ist die Verwechslungsgefahr beim Eingeben doch recht groß (Randbemerkung: Ich hatte das Problem schonmal, da statt regulären Bindestrichen tw. Geviertstriche für Seitenangaben verwendet wurden. Inzwischen kann ich mit beidem umgehen, aber bis ich das Problem als solches erkannt hatte, hat's eine Weile gedauert). SStark (talk) 16:27, 20 November 2024 (CET)

Doppelte Kommata sind häufiger als ich dachte. Für die Kurztitel (die als Lemma und damit URL dienen) sollten wir Lösungen ohne Kommata finden, hilfsweise einfach durch Weglassen. —-Christof Rolker (talk) 00:04, 21 November 2024 (CET)

Da mehr Bibliotheken bzw. Handschriften als gedacht betroffen sind, habe ich die Richtlinien angepasst: Conventions on referencing manuscripts: mehr als zwei Kommata im Lemma vermeiden. Das Problem wird nur mittelfristig und manuell gelöst werden können. Gruß Christof Rolker (talk) 08:15, 21 November 2024 (CET)

Also eigentlich stören zusätzliche Kommata im Shelfmark nicht. Was ich mache ist folgendes (an einem Beispiel von Ort, Bib, Mss. X, Y - Lorem Ipsum):

1. Ich nehme alles, was vor dem Bindestrich steht -> Ort, Bib, Mss. X, Y
2. Das teile das an den Kommata auf, sodass ich eine Liste habe -> 1: "Ort", 2: "Bib", 3: "Mss. X", 4: " Y"
3. Dann speichere ich die ersten beiden Einträge als Ort bzw. Bibliothek
4. Und alles, was dann noch übrig ist, wird wieder mit Kommata zusammengefügt und als Shelfmark gespeichert -> "Mss. X" + "," + " Y" -> "Mss. X, Y"
5. Und dann verarbeite ich den Teil hinter dem Bindestrich, aber das ist hierfür irrelevant

SStark (talk) 13:09, 21 November 2024 (CET)